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recording in progress

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i have to accept okay okay excellent

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excellent correction i don't need that

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anymore

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oh sorry took a second there i had to

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find my glasses so i could read your

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phone number so i could text you the

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the things well i'm glad we connect

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yeah all right uh we're recording

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all good and let me bring up the

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document again

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okay so we were talking about uh this

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this event summary document and we've

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gone through maybe the first

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uh two paragraphs yeah so i just again

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oops i need to plug my phone in

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sorry let me plug my phone in will this

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work if i go

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horizontal yeah it'll just flip

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is that okay yeah okay

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uh so again i i haven't seen this event

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summary document before and i cannot

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validate the uh accuracy or

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that it's official uh but many of the

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terms and details in here seem to be

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correct

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uh and familiar from my experience so

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what i can offer

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is an interpretation or sort of

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translation

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sort of the way it's worded and what

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they're talking about here

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so uh you know at the top they're

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talking about the

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aircraft from the different squadrons so

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the 110 100 would have been

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uh our aircraft to uh commander dave

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fraver and myself

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three or three or three or five would

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have been legacy hornets and 401 would

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have been a single seat

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super hornet so it sounds like everybody

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was

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out in airborne at that time and uh

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it says that upon takeoff we were

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vectored by princeton and banger

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so banger would have been referring to

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the e2 hawkeye which is the airborne

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controller

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they have the big radar dish on their

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aircraft

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and who we would have expected to

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provide our

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air traffic control command and control

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during our exercise our training

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intercepts

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uh and so princeton is the uss princeton

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uh who interrupted that training to

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provide

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the real world intercept

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uh so to intercept uh

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unidentified contact at 160 or 160 at 40

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nautical miles so

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that's referring to the bearing and

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range

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and here it has a latitude and longitude

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again i haven't looked those up on a map

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but i'm assuming that that's off the

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coast of uh

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yeah yeah they're in the same rough area

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that we've been talking about

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okay and then i think it's referring to

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the location of the limits

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uh normally we wouldn't publish or

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advertise the exact location

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of a nuclear aircraft carrier

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so uh you know after the fact it's fine

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but

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in real time this sort of information

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would be

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sensitive and close hold so the

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princeton informed fast eagles that the

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contact was moving at 100 knots at 25

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000

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feet so that i think was what led us to

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believe that maybe

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it was folks smuggling

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drugs up the coast or uh some other

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nefarious activity

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uh in a small plane cessna piper going

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slow 100 dots is fairly slow

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and uh but it's unusual that it's at

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that high altitude so 25 000 feet would

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be

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pretty high if you're smuggling drugs

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yeah yeah and that's really slow for

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something traveling at 25 000 feet i

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mean it seems very

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unusual yeah exactly so you know maybe

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just kind of the first huh question mark

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is going off over our cockpits of trying

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to figure out what's going on and

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what are we supposed to do about it okay

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so second paragraph

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festivals 110 and 100 could not find the

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unidentified airborne contact at

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location

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given by princeton so that is referring

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to

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points on their radar scope what is

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called merge plot

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so as they see the range uh countdown

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there's a point at which they say merge

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plot and that tells us as air crew

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as we get closer to start uh some

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different radar mechanics with our own

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uh aircraft radar and then also our

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different scan patterns

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looking outside more and trying to pick

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up a visual

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so that we can merge and potentially

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engage with this

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okay so again we're skating outside

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and looking and this is when

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since fast eagles spotted a large

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identified object in the water at 14 30.

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you know this is suggesting that there

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was in fact

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something there an

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there was churning and there was

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something there

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but it was very hard to tell you know

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was it sinking

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was it was it uh coming up

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was it a reef you know where the

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uh but it's it's hard to tell whether

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it was related to what we saw then

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shortly later shortly thereafter or

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whether it was unrelated and just

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happened to be in the same area

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but it was that churning water that

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directed all of our eyes into that same

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same spot and and how i at least picked

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up the

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visual of the tic tac

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steam smoke turning around object

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so i did not see steam and smoke i did

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see churning water

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uh and water disturbance sort of roiling

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um but i wonder where the steam smoke

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came from

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so this is where it's saying like pilot

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saw and then pilots saw

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i mean do you do you recognize any of

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this as stuff that you

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said to somebody in your debrief or do

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you think this is from the other pilots

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it might be a compilation again i this

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is the first time i'm reading this

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you know it could be i don't know i

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don't know

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where these specific details are coming

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from

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um and it could be that one of the other

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three people involved

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saw something that looks steamy or smoky

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right now pilot describes

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object initially as resembling a downed

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airliner

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also stated that it was much larger than

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a submarine

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i would say that it was about the size

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of a large aircraft

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um fuselage so it wasn't a pure cross

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but you know that my heart think and i

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thought perhaps we were on scene

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uh for for search and rescue for

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something that went down

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because that initial shape and size

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was like oh an aircraft went down

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here he didn't see the wings of an

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aircraft just like like what looked like

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a fuselage

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right so it would have been sort of that

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oblong right

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right that's the shape of the water that

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was turning

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yeah but i didn't see the clear

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yeah sort of with the water bottle

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like yeah we know it's like a 737

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yeah i should really invest in some tic

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tac

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props yeah i use uh i use my iphone

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okay so it's very tick-tock yeah that's

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really good

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you can do two different sizes as well

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it's like the small tic tac and long tic

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tac

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actually out of these two which one

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resembles most in your memory would it

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be like more like this

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or the the longer one oh man i don't

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know probably the shorter one

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okay yeah yeah more tic-tac-like i guess

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yeah all right sorry okay um

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well descending from 24 000 feet to gain

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a better view

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of the unidentified contact in the water

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faster than 110 sided an airborne

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contact

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which appeared to be capsule shaped

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wingless small light oblong full shape

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25 to 30 feet length no visible markings

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and no glass

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uh five nautical miles west

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from the position of the underneath the

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so

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this i mean this wouldn't be describing

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my account

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yeah you have to ask commander framer if

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this is describing his account

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yeah i don't think it is i mean he said

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his

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water which is you know which is what i

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was saying earlier this is the

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the kind of the big discrepancy with

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this account which is why people

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you know have suspicions about whether

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it's accurate or not

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yeah i mean if anything this might if it

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if it is commander frey we're saying he

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picked up before it crossed over the

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water

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disturbance area then that would account

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for why he had a longer

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visual contact with it uh but for me i

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didn't pick up

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visual until it was the fact that there

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was this disturbance in the water

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that helped me because the tic-tac was

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so fast and so

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relatively small uh to this large ocean

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that we were looking at

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um it hadn't been for the uh

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for the roiling water i don't i don't

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know that i would have been able to pick

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up a visual

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you so cross over the water and that was

249
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the first you saw of it

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right yeah yeah

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uh so and oftentimes so when we're

252
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taught to scan

253
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sometimes we're taught we're taught to

254
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just sort of fix on a position

255
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so that we can see relative motion

256
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around

257
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looking your eyebrows are looking

258
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uh so i think that the fact that i was

259
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looking

260
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fixed at the roiling water and then this

261
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you know object crossed in front of it

262
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is what helped me

263
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at least pick up a visual and track it

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10 seconds or so that i tracked it uh

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uh altitude four thousand feet at course

266
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three zero zero passed under fast eagle

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110

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descending and turning capsule began

269
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climbing and turning inside a fast elo's

270
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turn radius

271
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pilot estimated that capsule achieved

272
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six to seven hundred knots

273
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fast eagle 110 could not keep up with

274
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the rate of turn

275
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and the gain of altitude 110 lost visual

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id of capsule and haze

277
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and i know there's a lot of questions

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about the haze yeah yeah

279
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so um so it was a clear day

280
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calm water and you know we could clearly

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see

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but but as you get further towards the

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horizon then

284
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there is a haze right like a marine

285
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layer

286
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:37,279
of haze and so

287
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,320
i don't know how how else to describe it

288
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:44,880
uh then just say like the further off

289
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:45,360
you get

290
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:50,000
the the the less christian

291
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:52,079
yeah no i know it's i think it's they

292
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:54,079
just hazy i mean

293
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,920
in photography we have dehazing where

294
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:57,920
you take that out and so it's just as

295
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:59,440
things get further away there

296
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,120
they're dimmer essentially lower

297
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:02,720
contrast like you say

298
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,990
yeah that that's i i don't know how else

299
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,839
to describe that last official contact

300
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:16,079
had capsule at 14k

301
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:20,079
heading due east neither fast eagles

302
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:28,230
you know am i going to testify that

303
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:29,920
that's the exact altitude and that's the

304
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:33,279
exact bearing and the exact range

305
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:35,120
i can't at this point it's been over 16

306
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:36,800
years and that's again i would refer to

307
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,120
the

308
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:39,680
written notes that were taken uh

309
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,600
immediately following in

310
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:44,959
in the closer years

311
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:48,639
but uh it sounds generally uh

312
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:52,240
accurate of of the way that he turned

313
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:53,600
and it turned and it

314
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,959
did speed up and um and how quickly we

315
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:58,320
lost visual

316
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,760
and that sounds like a pretty short

317
00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:01,440
thing like he was you were describing

318
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:01,839
like

319
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:05,120
you know 10 second encounter yes and

320
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:08,480
what is described in that paragraph uh

321
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,560
where he began to acquire from there to

322
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:14,480
losing visual id could that all fit in

323
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:17,040
10 seconds

324
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:20,000
yes so this whole paragraph here of

325
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:21,360
capsule passing under

326
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:24,160
fast eagle turning to acquire descending

327
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:25,440
and turning

328
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,470
yeah that's i mean this all sounds like

329
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,240
you know he came in and then it it just

330
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:35,760
happens very quickly

331
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:38,639
right um yeah you know again i don't

332
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:39,040
want to

333
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,800
say this is like the definitive account

334
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,320
because a lot of people have been

335
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:44,160
you know suspicious of this because it's

336
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,600
it doesn't really have the provenance

337
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,600
but it looks official and a lot of it

338
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,800
matches

339
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:50,560
sure so trying to figure out what

340
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,310
uh neither fast eagles 110 or 100 could

341
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:58,240
achieve radar lock or any other means of

342
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,360
positive id

343
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,519
fast evil 100 was flying high cover and

344
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,000
saw the engagement by festival 110

345
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,720
so that's me in 100 with realism fast

346
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:08,959
eagle 100 confirms 110

347
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:11,279
visual id 100 lost contact in the haze

348
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:20,710
cpa of aircraft 110 from contact

349
00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:30,150
what is sort of cpa there closes closest

350
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,600
point of approach for

351
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,680
you know how how close they are right

352
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:35,440
yeah four to five thousand feet that's

353
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:43,350
and in uh in aviation terms that would

354
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:43,680
be

355
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:46,959
what we would fly

356
00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:54,069
uh formation so this would be you know

357
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:57,839
it you know a mile sounds far uh but in

358
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,639
it's actually pretty close fast eagles

359
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:02,800
devils and hobos performed eight x and

360
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,680
mullet

361
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:05,920
after vector from princeton toward

362
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:08,079
identified contact each performed one

363
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:09,519
run

364
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:13,360
fast eagle vid two groups um

365
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,189
like a normal report wrap up right

366
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,639
so that you know again i can't i can't

367
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:28,639
confirm and validate this as being

368
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:29,600
official but

369
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:31,440
these little details that are included

370
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:32,959
make me think

371
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:37,040
uh it at least

372
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,720
appears to be including the kind of

373
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,800
detail that would be included

374
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,959
included here and they also include so

375
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:46,320
raven would have been our

376
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:49,600
um our ea 6b

377
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,189
so this is basically talking about the

378
00:16:01,350 --> 00:15:57,440
exercise that carried on after

379
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:01,360
this encounter did you participate then

380
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:02,240
in

381
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:06,000
back

382
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:09,680
after the encounter or no there was the

383
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,480
point yeah so they're saying that we

384
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,320
performed one run so at this point

385
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:17,360
the concern would have been fuel yeah

386
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:20,839
you know we would have with this divert

387
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:24,000
and pulling around we would have

388
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:25,440
spent a lot of the gas that we would

389
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:28,000
have needed for these training runs

390
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:31,040
but it you know it looks like we were

391
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,949
uh i'm sure that none of us were really

392
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:38,399
in the mental

393
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,150
right yeah it must be very distracting

394
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:46,720
obviously because you just had this

395
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:48,160
whole variety of things that you thought

396
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:49,839
were happening and then then you get to

397
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,600
carry on but i guess that's

398
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:54,560
good training in a way because it's uh

399
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:55,600
everything you have to do in the real

400
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:56,399
world

401
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:00,959
uh so they talk about i think

402
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:04,240
fraver talks about it like the objects

403
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,319
appearing at the cap point and you

404
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:10,240
talking about that on the radio do you

405
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:11,839
remember that

406
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:15,280
yeah so as soon as we lost visual

407
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:18,240
we would have said we did say on the

408
00:17:20,949 --> 00:17:18,959
radio

409
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,959
and i don't know who in the flight said

410
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:22,000
it if it was

411
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:24,079
commander fraber or his wizzo or my

412
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,510
lost contact uh do you have a hit

413
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:33,360
basically asking the controllers do you

414
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:35,919
see uh we've lost visual

415
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:38,960
and uh that's when the controller said

416
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:40,559
uh something to the effect of you're not

417
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,000
gonna believe this but it's

418
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:44,640
it's at your cap point right so that

419
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:45,760
would have been on the other side of the

420
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:46,480
airspace

421
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:50,400
and um you know it didn't make sense

422
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,520
in terms of a time distance problem of

423
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:55,520
how it would have done that so

424
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:59,679
uh either it was supersonic and able to

425
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:00,480
get there

426
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,840
uh super fast or you know it dropped off

427
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:04,880
and something else

428
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,520
popped up at the cap that had the same

429
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,160
radar signature

430
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,320
again i i'm not qualified to make that

431
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:14,960
analysis or to provide those details but

432
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:23,750
our tic tac disappear from our

433
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:26,559
point of engagement and then reappear at

434
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:27,760
this

435
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,799
pre-briefed cac point that we were

436
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:32,160
supposed to use for our training

437
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:33,280
exercise

438
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:35,840
do you remember uh when maybe in the

439
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,480
debrief

440
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:38,240
or whatever afterwards then talking

441
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:40,000
about uh

442
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:42,799
tracking it after you got to merge plot

443
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,120
and

444
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:45,360
it coming down to the water because if

445
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,679
it started out at 25k and there was at

446
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:49,280
a low level would that give them

447
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,960
separation so they could tell that you

448
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,200
were still up high and it was down low

449
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:54,799
did they even detect that or is that

450
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:57,679
possible to detect

451
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:00,640
um so i don't know uh if that was

452
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,520
communicated

453
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:03,200
when i picked up a visual of the tic tac

454
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:04,640
it was very low

455
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:07,919
so it was right above the water uh

456
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:11,679
and you know it's definitely not a bit

457
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:14,960
24 000 or 25 000 feet

458
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,640
uh where it started off you

459
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:20,240
you would have been at 25 000 feet there

460
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:21,760
because you would have come in at

461
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,480
you know what you thought was

462
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,799
co-altitude or would you above or below

463
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:26,640
it

464
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:29,679
um again i'd have to i'd have to look

465
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,440
back to those reports that were taken in

466
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:33,039
terms of what was our specific altitude

467
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:33,760
but you know

468
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:36,480
20-ish thousand feet yeah would have

469
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,400
been what we were transiting at

470
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:41,440
uh that's sort of a max conserve for

471
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:42,400
fuel

472
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,590
so so the intercept that if you were

473
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,200
trying to intercept something do you try

474
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:51,440
to intercept it at the same altitude

475
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,039
or do you come above it or um

476
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:58,080
like in this case it depends yeah okay

477
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:01,520
right yeah yeah uh

478
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:04,799
you know we probably would have come in

479
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,320
20 20 000 feet ish if we were expecting

480
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:10,159
it to be at 25 you know we'd like to

481
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,120
look

482
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:13,039
uh depending on the conditions depending

483
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,159
on where the sun was

484
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:17,039
depending on what would give us a better

485
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,080
uh

486
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,640
chance at the merge to take advantage of

487
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:22,320
the environmental factors

488
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:25,520
uh you know it all depends

489
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,120
yeah so uh you know you talk about the

490
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:31,760
report and your debrief that's obviously

491
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,840
the best thing to go to like but is is

492
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:35,520
that available anywhere do you have a

493
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:36,880
copy of it or

494
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:40,480
is it accessible yeah

495
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,760
so i don't know um and i

496
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,679
like i agreed to talk to you today and

497
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:47,520
uh i'm trying to do my best to answer

498
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,080
what questions

499
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:50,400
i can on twitter i really appreciate it

500
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:51,200
yeah but i

501
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,720
i folks have to understand uh

502
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:56,960
you know there's almost 400 000 people

503
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,840
in the navy

504
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:00,159
at any given time and each person plays

505
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:01,520
a very small role

506
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,640
uh so in november of 2004 i was a

507
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:06,240
lieutenant junior grade

508
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,240
so there's ensign lieutenant junior

509
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:10,000
grade and lieutenant so i wasn't even

510
00:21:14,830 --> 00:21:11,280
like a

511
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:14,840
fully uh trained

512
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:22,070
you know um i was still very green

513
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:25,360
and and young and uh just the fact that

514
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,640
i was flying on the wing of the

515
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,320
committing officer of the squadron and

516
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:29,919
that i had a senior department head in

517
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,360
my back seat

518
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:34,960
uh is further evidence of how young

519
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:37,360
and how an experience okay right so you

520
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,080
were in

521
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:40,720
training essentially with them right so

522
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,320
i was still i was brand new to the

523
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,559
squadron and i was uh you know just

524
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,720
trying to land safely on the ship

525
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,559
okay all right get brilliant at the

526
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:50,480
basics before

527
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:58,230
more advanced tactical and technical

528
00:22:02,950 --> 00:21:58,880
things

529
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:02,960
so um so that's just a glimpse into

530
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:05,679
who i was when this event happened but

531
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:07,360
then even after it happened

532
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:14,630
asked to provide uh debriefs and to

533
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,640
go before congress and and talk about

534
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,000
this uh

535
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:20,400
you know i don't have this global

536
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,919
situational awareness

537
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:24,080
to the event uh i wasn't sitting at the

538
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:25,120
princeton

539
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,400
uh radar scope uh at the same time that

540
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,320
i was flying the f-18

541
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:32,720
i wasn't in the e2 at the same time you

542
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:35,520
know i was i have a very small sliver

543
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:39,919
of eyewitness experience and testimony

544
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:40,480
uh

545
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:43,520
and that is now over 16 years old

546
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:47,120
uh and then i'm not i'm not entitled to

547
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:50,960
a bigger insight or explanation

548
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:53,440
so when folks ask me what's the status

549
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,360
of the report or where are these other

550
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:57,600
technical details and why can't we have

551
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,559
access to all of

552
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,960
those other uh where are the tapes you

553
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:03,200
know all that stuff

554
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,070
you know i hate to say it's not my job

555
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:10,559
but it's not my it's not my place

556
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:13,039
uh to have access to all of those things

557
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:14,400
uh and

558
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:17,360
um and i'm also not motivated to seek

559
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:17,600
them

560
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,880
out so so that's the other thing is that

561
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,120
there are folks like you and many of

562
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,520
these good people who are on ufo twitter

563
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:26,480
who are

564
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,280
uh intensely motivated they just have

565
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:31,039
curiosity and this drive

566
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,159
to figure out this puzzle uh and

567
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:37,520
and know if like i have respect and i

568
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,960
you know i i admire your tenacity

569
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,640
um but it doesn't scratch that part of

570
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:44,000
my brain

571
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,279
and so this happened to me in november

572
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,200
2004

573
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:52,080
and it it doesn't define me i don't

574
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,520
identify

575
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:56,480
with it it has come it has haunted me

576
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:57,200
ever since

577
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,320
and that folks like you and

578
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,360
other curious or concerned citizens have

579
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:05,520
have sought me out investigative

580
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:06,799
journalists have

581
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,720
uh you know found me and asked for

582
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:09,840
information

583
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,120
but i don't go around trying to

584
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:16,080
investigate it further myself or try to

585
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,640
convince

586
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,559
others you know that i saw something

587
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:20,640
that day

588
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:23,120
as a military officer who was in a

589
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,520
government aircraft who was on

590
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,240
taxpayer time i feel a duty and

591
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,039
obligation to respond to these inquiries

592
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,200
uh with what info i can provide but i

593
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:34,640
don't feel

594
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:37,440
um like i'm part of the hunt if you you

595
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,080
know what i mean

596
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:40,080
i don't know i know you're not you know

597
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,760
looking for it yourself

598
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:43,520
yeah i really appreciate you you're

599
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,720
doing this and you know the reason i

600
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:46,480
suggested we record it and if it's okay

601
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:47,520
i want to just

602
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:51,360
publish it on unedited uh on youtube

603
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:55,279
uh it's just to save everybody time

604
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,039
i mean it saves you time having to

605
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:58,640
repeat the same things over and over

606
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,000
again and it saves other people

607
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:01,919
time having to like you know trying to

608
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,039
track you down

609
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,559
so i know a lot of people were curious

610
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:06,640
about you know what you thought about

611
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:08,080
this report

612
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:10,159
uh and you know of course like the

613
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:11,919
slightly more technical details about

614
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,400
what you remember

615
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:17,039
the nerdy stuff like your actual

616
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,240
velocities and

617
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:20,159
directions and headings and locations

618
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:21,600
and things like that so

619
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:24,799
i guess the more we can get out in one

620
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:28,000
interview the less the less recent

621
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:29,679
people have to bother you in the future

622
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:35,590
so uh it's yeah is there is

623
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,720
there's nothing else i think to talk

624
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:38,880
about with this particular report

625
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,640
and uh we were talking on twitter again

626
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:45,120
over the last couple of days about

627
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,240
the differences in the time um

628
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:51,279
recollection i can you you recall the

629
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:52,320
the whole incident

630
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:55,039
from merge plot essentially as taking

631
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:55,520
around

632
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,520
10 seconds i think he said originally

633
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,520
eight to ten seconds

634
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:02,080
uh but then you talk to fraber and he

635
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:03,200
describes

636
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:05,679
what seems like a much more leisurely

637
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,480
encounter

638
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:08,480
but essentially it seems starting at the

639
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,000
same time

640
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:11,919
and so it's it's kind of hard for people

641
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,799
to to reconcile those two things and of

642
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:16,080
course you just have your recollection

643
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,039
and he just has

644
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,440
how's it his but do you think there's

645
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:20,960
there's a way of kind of slotting in

646
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:22,880
what you perceived

647
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:26,159
into what he perceived like being at the

648
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:27,120
end of it obviously

649
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:30,480
with the way yeah so i mean again i was

650
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,120
in the

651
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:33,440
the wingman position i was in dash two

652
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,240
so uh

653
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,960
you know we have two aircraft and uh my

654
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,320
role uh

655
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:40,240
as the junior pilot the inexperienced

656
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:42,559
pilot was really to hang on and not lose

657
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,039
sight of

658
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:45,120
the lead aircraft that was piloted by

659
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:46,400
commander fravor

660
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:51,279
uh so you know the the merge plot is a

661
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:53,840
kind of a nebulous space the princeton

662
00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:54,720
is calling

663
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,799
or track you know counting down the

664
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,080
range uh

665
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,480
to when we might see a visual but there

666
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:02,559
isn't a

667
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:05,440
hack on the clock in terms of okay now

668
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:06,480
is when you are

669
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,679
directly you know

670
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:12,000
contacting this thing so it might have

671
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:12,720
been that

672
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:15,840
dave fravor picked up a visual um

673
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:18,480
a long time before i did uh there was

674
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,080
chatter between

675
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,559
myself and the person in my back seat

676
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:24,000
dave fravor and the person in his

677
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,039
backseat

678
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:27,600
between our two aircraft on a radio

679
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:29,120
frequency that was different than the

680
00:27:33,190 --> 00:27:30,640
radio frequency

681
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,200
talking to the princeton controller the

682
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:35,200
hawk guide everybody else outside so you

683
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:36,480
have

684
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:38,720
at least four different uh sort of

685
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:39,520
channels

686
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:42,960
of simultaneous conversations going on

687
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:45,840
and so it wasn't until somebody said

688
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,600
look in the water

689
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:50,000
there's something there in the water

690
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:51,840
that directed my eyes and everybody's

691
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,320
eyes

692
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:54,159
in that same spot that's when i picked

693
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,080
up the visual of the tic tac

694
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,320
and that's when you know dave was

695
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,760
already

696
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:01,840
swooping in and having what i would call

697
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:04,960
this this uh aerial engagement

698
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,080
basic fighter bfm dog fighting

699
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:10,480
uh sort of aggressive maneuvering it

700
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:14,080
it's entirely possible that dave saw it

701
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:16,720
minutes before that and was just

702
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:19,360
watching it behave in a benign way

703
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:22,320
before you decided to get a closer look

704
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:22,640
um

705
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,760
and that i was just way behind

706
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,679
everybody else because of my position in

707
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:29,440
the flight and my right

708
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:32,559
junior status and um you know

709
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:35,679
so so green and it experienced that i

710
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:36,240
was

711
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:39,440
you know like hey guys what's going on

712
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:41,200
so it's entirely possible that i was

713
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,640
just on the tail end

714
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,960
um but but i was confident can say that

715
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,960
i was visual for about 10 seconds

716
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,240
and that the actual aggressive

717
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,240
maneuvering of my lead

718
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,159
what lasted for about 10 seconds which

719
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:53,760
would have been a normal engagement with

720
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:54,480
another

721
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,520
an adversary

722
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,520
dissimilar aircraft you know our

723
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:01,760
engagements don't last that long

724
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:05,120
uh so it could be that when i was

725
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,799
following him and i thought we were just

726
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:09,039
you know merged plot that he actually

727
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:10,640
had eyes on i don't want to speak for

728
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:11,600
him

729
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,399
but you know if he was if he was moving

730
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:15,600
in a benign way

731
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,000
and not making real aggressive maneuvers

732
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:19,840
i was just following him

733
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:22,960
um look you know alternating scan

734
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:24,399
outside to see if i could pick the

735
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:24,960
visual

736
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:28,080
but mostly making sure i didn't lose him

737
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,600
or hit him as my lead aircraft

738
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,440
and then trying to follow these

739
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:35,279
different conversations on all these

740
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:36,159
different channels

741
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,720
so i mean i get where you're coming that

742
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,240
the time discrepancy

743
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:43,200
is is yeah and i'm not trying to tell

744
00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:43,520
you

745
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:46,880
anything here because i know people will

746
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,000
accuse me of

747
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,720
of that i'm trying to figure out what

748
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,240
what actually happened

749
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,960
yeah say i would defer to dave fraber as

750
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:56,080
having

751
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:58,080
because he was in the lead aircraft he

752
00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:00,080
had he didn't have to worry about where

753
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,200
i was

754
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:03,360
it's my job to deconflict with him he

755
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:05,120
literally had a bigger picture he had so

756
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,399
much more experience

757
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,080
uh he was a full commander he was the

758
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,760
skipper of our squadron

759
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,559
and had just thousands of hours not just

760
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:14,640
on the hornet but also in the tomcat

761
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:17,840
so you know he really is

762
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:21,440
more qualified uh as an observer in that

763
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,640
scenario

764
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,480
and then because of his position in the

765
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:26,480
flight had a better perspective

766
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:29,760
um and so you know i would defer to him

767
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,640
and then you know the other two

768
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,760
eyewitnesses to that

769
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:35,520
uh were in our backseat the weapons

770
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:37,279
systems officer and i'm sure that they

771
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:38,399
each have a different

772
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:41,440
um yeah that would be interesting yeah

773
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,880
yeah if they could uh yeah we could

774
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:46,240
actually get to talk to them or someone

775
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:47,679
could sort them it would be great but i

776
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:49,200
think uh

777
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:51,840
your wizzo he had kind of uh got a bit

778
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,440
turned off to the whole thing after his

779
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:55,279
experience on fox news

780
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,200
and the other one hasn't come forward

781
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:59,440
yet so yeah this is a real pain in the

782
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:00,480
ass

783
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:03,200
yeah no event to you but um no i get it

784
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:04,159
i get it yeah

785
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:05,279
especially when you're going over the

786
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,200
same thing and people are making

787
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:09,440
little green men jokes and things all

788
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:10,960
the time

789
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:13,679
this is nice yeah so if i could just

790
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:14,080
like

791
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:18,000
get nerdy for a second uh the

792
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:19,600
what your eyes on portion of the

793
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,519
encounter is 10 seconds yeah you look

794
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,200
you look down at the the white water

795
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:26,159
and you see it whiz over the uh the

796
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,200
white water

797
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:28,880
and that's when the start of your your

798
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,279
personal eyes on 10 seconds

799
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:32,720
could you describe kind of like what

800
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:34,399
angle you were looking

801
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:37,600
at like in a down and the the heading uh

802
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,640
from your

803
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:40,000
point of view was it kind of just down

804
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:48,070
um so as i was picking up visual

805
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,159
i was looking over my left canopy

806
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,960
rail so okay does that answer your

807
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,080
question

808
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:59,279
yeah so i would have been in a like a

809
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,159
left-hand

810
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:02,720
left bank and i was looking out the left

811
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,919
side of my cockpit

812
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:06,080
okay so your plane is banked to the left

813
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,120
and so you're kind of looking

814
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:09,120
down straight out more or less and then

815
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,399
down a bit

816
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,320
and the left canopy rail is that is that

817
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,320
a bit forward of you or just

818
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,480
to the right right yeah yes it would

819
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:17,600
have been

820
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:20,320
you know at my 10 o'clock position 10

821
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,919
o'clock below

822
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,000
right i'm in sort of a turn so that i

823
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:26,399
could see

824
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:29,919
and would you then be circling around

825
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:33,120
yeah i can't give you an exact uh

826
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:35,760
compass heading or you know a bearing

827
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:36,799
because again i would have been

828
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,519
following

829
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,919
you yeah yeah yeah so he would have been

830
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:41,360
turning

831
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,880
if you're following him that means he

832
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,360
was circling at that point

833
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,600
yeah and so if you go to his you know in

834
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,880
this trying to figure out our

835
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:50,480
discrepancies and i'd have to go into my

836
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:51,679
messages to double check

837
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:54,159
but um i think i posted them on twitter

838
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,840
yeah you did yeah um

839
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:58,559
you know he talks about doing this slow

840
00:33:01,669 --> 00:33:00,000
turn

841
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,679
i don't know how to find it maybe you

842
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:03,679
can help me find this

843
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,679
yeah let me uh i copied them

844
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,200
all four of them onto metabone because

845
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:11,840
it's hard to find things in twitter

846
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:16,640
um okay everything was slow and benign

847
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:32,070
until i went nose low to get close and

848
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,279
it went poof

849
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:35,440
uh where does where's the other one i

850
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,399
posted another one you're gonna split

851
00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:46,149
i don't really don't understand

852
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:54,610
oh sorry i thought i had it

853
00:33:54,620 --> 00:33:58,230
[Music]

854
00:34:01,350 --> 00:34:00,389
it says we saw it hovering and flew

855
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:01,360
around the circle

856
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:04,640
and then cut across to get closer based

857
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,720
on a slow turn rate and slow descent i

858
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:09,280
say roughly five minutes

859
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:12,399
okay so if he if he if dave fraber is

860
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:13,520
doing a slow

861
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:16,800
circle around it then i am just

862
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:19,679
following him and i might not even be

863
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,639
aware

864
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:23,200
that we're you know turning or that he's

865
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:24,639
visual

866
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,629
you had it's not until he starts an

867
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:38,240
aggressive maneuver that i

868
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:41,760
like okay all right

869
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,629
interesting but i don't know it's uh

870
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:52,560
it's just like his accounts like it kind

871
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:54,720
of sounds like he's slowly descending

872
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:57,040
towards it and it's coming up as he's

873
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:58,640
descending

874
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:00,240
so i don't if you would have seen it

875
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:02,079
cross over the white water

876
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,440
at that time and

877
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,760
yeah it's hard yeah it's hard yeah i

878
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:09,200
know

879
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,119
yeah it's such a long time ago that

880
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:13,200
you're not going to be able to

881
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,240
uh recall it and i remember you said

882
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:18,160
that on when you were on anderson cooper

883
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:21,839
like your memory changes

884
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,440
uh yeah it will be interesting to

885
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:27,200
get a more detailed account from dave i

886
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:28,240
guess i mean this is this is something

887
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,160
that i've always wanted is to

888
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:32,079
uh get like i think you described it as

889
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,520
the the arrows

890
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,760
uh version of the debrief where you draw

891
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,599
a little diagram with with vector arrows

892
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,720
and the turns and

893
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,320
everything getting that very very

894
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,240
detailed account of

895
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:43,680
where the plane was and where he thought

896
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:45,520
the the object was

897
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:47,200
uh that would be really helpful in terms

898
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,560
of

899
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:50,560
either eliminating things or or getting

900
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:52,720
clues as to what they might have been

901
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:55,920
um but i guess

902
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:59,119
i guess what's fascinating to me is is

903
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,240
like do you think that you would

904
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:02,560
actually be able to figure it out

905
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,400
i mean this this is like a cold case

906
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:06,079
this is like a yeah

907
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,359
it's very hard yeah there's

908
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:11,280
there's like uh you know kind of a

909
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,560
limited number of things that it might

910
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,240
be if it's not some kind of

911
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:17,280
weird uh you know hypersonic levitating

912
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:18,640
craft

913
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:21,760
uh and the one thing that i

914
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:24,839
i thought as a theory and this is very

915
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:27,599
speculative is that

916
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:30,079
what dave saw was something smaller than

917
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:31,200
what he imagined it

918
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:35,280
to be and uh his his perception of it

919
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:38,560
uh as being a 40 foot long object

920
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:40,960
was based on just his him anticipating

921
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:41,680
it being

922
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,280
you know the same size as a hornet

923
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,880
because that's the typical thing he sees

924
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,079
in the air

925
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,280
uh you know and uh he says in that in

926
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:51,280
that report like 20 to 35 feet which is

927
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,320
different again but

928
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:54,960
say say he thought it was 40 feet wide

929
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:56,720
and it was actually 20 feet wide

930
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,760
a lot and then

931
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:01,200
that would give him this kind of

932
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,040
illusion of it being twice away as

933
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:06,640
as he thought it was and then if he was

934
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,520
kind of

935
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,760
descending to it and he thought it was

936
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,520
down by the water

937
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,520
when it was actually kind of halfway

938
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:15,520
between him and the water when he

939
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,119
descended towards it it would it would

940
00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:18,720
look like he was coming up even though

941
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:20,079
it wasn't really moving

942
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:22,160
if it was something like say a 20-foot

943
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:23,359
long

944
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:25,839
target um to like a you know a tow

945
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:27,200
target like a target balloon or

946
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:28,880
something like that from san clemente

947
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:31,760
that got loose or something like that

948
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,720
and then when he goes around the circle

949
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:36,079
if he's going around something that's in

950
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:37,440
the middle of a circle it's not really

951
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,240
moving

952
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:39,920
but he thinks it's twice as big he would

953
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:41,520
look exactly like

954
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,640
he's going around it like this

955
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:47,040
and then when he cuts across the circle

956
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:49,599
he thinks it's over here he cuts across

957
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,520
and then it looks like it's whisked off

958
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,640
because

959
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:54,720
you know he thinks it's done this when

960
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:56,800
really he's just done this

961
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,200
but uh obviously that's very speculative

962
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,119
uh and your perspective of course is

963
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:05,119
from above of the same thing

964
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:07,119
but then you only saw the 10 seconds of

965
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:08,400
it which to you

966
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:11,040
seemed like a very intense encounter

967
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:12,320
yeah so my theory

968
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:14,400
and stopped me if this sounds completely

969
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,880
crazy is that you're seeing

970
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,720
kind of like a similar illusion from

971
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:20,160
different angles like because you're

972
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:21,119
just getting this

973
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,240
this 10 second brief encounter with no

974
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,000
longer frame of reference and he's got

975
00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:28,480
this more continued illusion

976
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,760
of of distance so what i'm doing here is

977
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,599
with talking to you about it is trying

978
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,520
to get more info about

979
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:37,119
you know whether that's even possible at

980
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:40,160
all yeah

981
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:43,920
something just fell off the shelf sorry

982
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:48,079
that's strange uh so you know

983
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,000
yeah it's a poltergeist uh

984
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:54,160
so does that just sound ridiculous to

985
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:55,440
you that that's

986
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:58,880
that theory it doesn't and again i'm not

987
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:02,000
wedded to any particular theory i have

988
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:05,119
uh in all of these interviews and

989
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:07,040
and all of these folks who have reached

990
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,240
out to me they say what do you think it

991
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,400
is and i say i have no idea

992
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,880
i have no idea what it was i had no idea

993
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,320
i i mean i did

994
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:16,320
come back to the ship on november 14

995
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:19,119
2004 and for a minute it was pretty hot

996
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:20,240
i thought

997
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,960
uh where we vectored into some sort of

998
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,320
live training range

999
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:26,800
and what we saw on the water was a

1000
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,520
submarine

1001
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,520
and what was coming up the tic tac was

1002
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,200
some sort of surface to air or

1003
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,119
sub-surface-to-air missile

1004
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:36,000
um you know and i was pissed i thought

1005
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:37,440
it might not have been intentional but

1006
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,079
it was certainly

1007
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:41,200
negligent to vector us into a live

1008
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:42,400
trading airspace but then i was

1009
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:43,359
reassured

1010
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,079
that it was not a blue system that we

1011
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,000
didn't have any subs in the area

1012
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:50,800
and have been reassured many times since

1013
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,359
uh

1014
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:54,000
by the folks that are in the pentagon

1015
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,520
you know it was part of the

1016
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:57,920
office of naval intelligence atip and

1017
00:40:02,310 --> 00:39:59,520
uap task force

1018
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:02,320
over the years that i don't know that

1019
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,920
that was investigated and that's been

1020
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,680
eliminated as a possibility so that

1021
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:08,240
that sort of reassures me um that it

1022
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:09,359
wasn't

1023
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:12,079
a safety of flight issue that was

1024
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:13,040
self-induced

1025
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:16,240
by our uh bumbling

1026
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,119
or negligence so other than that i

1027
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:21,359
didn't i haven't had any theories i

1028
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:24,960
uh i have a engineering degree

1029
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:27,440
as an undergraduate uh i went to a math

1030
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,040
and science academy for high school

1031
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:32,560
so i do like to have sound

1032
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:36,000
science backing up anything that uh

1033
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:38,319
that i endorsed or that i uh press

1034
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:39,440
believe on

1035
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,640
uh and by the same token i don't think

1036
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:44,000
that we

1037
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:49,119
uh as a uh you know

1038
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,800
i don't think that we have discovered

1039
00:40:55,349 --> 00:40:53,440
everything that is to be discovered and

1040
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:55,359
unraveled all of the mysteries i think

1041
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:57,680
fermilab actually just recently

1042
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,440
announced uh something that was

1043
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,760
theoretical but but now they have

1044
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:05,040
you know a new force of nature

1045
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:07,760
announced that they approved in the lab

1046
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,160
yeah

1047
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,480
exactly so you know i think it would be

1048
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,880
incredibly arrogant of us to say

1049
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,800
uh we know everything and there's

1050
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,960
nothing left left to discuss

1051
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,720
but i don't know whether what we saw

1052
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:20,560
november 14 2004

1053
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,599
was something new to discover or whether

1054
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:25,440
it was some natural phenomenon

1055
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,440
whether it was some human activity

1056
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,440
whether it was some adversary

1057
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:31,599
uh you know sneaking up on a military

1058
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:33,200
exercise

1059
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,960
so again part of this engagement part of

1060
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,359
why i agreed to talk to you or why i'm

1061
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:41,440
you know talking to folks on twitter or

1062
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,800
doing some of these interviews is to

1063
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,400
reduce the stigma

1064
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,880
so that when folks see something uh

1065
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,160
strange

1066
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:50,079
they they will come out and and report

1067
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:51,920
it up the appropriate channels

1068
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:54,160
uh maybe not necessarily have a debate

1069
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,119
on twitter

1070
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,079
or a podcast on youtube but there's

1071
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,480
actually channels so faa

1072
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,800
federal aviation administration has a

1073
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:04,960
page and they're far a manual

1074
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,680
uh and it's with my other stuff but it's

1075
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:09,440
big thick flight rules and regulations

1076
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:10,560
and there's a page

1077
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,599
for you know what to do if you see a ufo

1078
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:15,599
and i don't know that many people i

1079
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,880
don't know if when you were doing your

1080
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:18,400
flight lessons if you

1081
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:21,200
uh were introduced to that um but i

1082
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:21,839
would

1083
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,400
i was not and i never saw any very my

1084
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:26,000
very short flight training but

1085
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:27,440
yeah yeah i mean you can google it right

1086
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:30,240
now if you just google faa

1087
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,680
aim and there's a phone number to call

1088
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:35,520
and i would say you know if you see

1089
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:37,359
something no prank calls but if you say

1090
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,040
something real

1091
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:41,359
call and there's also a dod flight

1092
00:42:45,349 --> 00:42:43,760
information handbook the fih

1093
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,359
where if you see something strange and

1094
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,880
it doesn't have to be aerial it could be

1095
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,480
on the ground or in the water

1096
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,920
uh you know we have these official

1097
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:51,920
reporting channels so that

1098
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:55,760
we can you know maintain

1099
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:58,640
national security national defense

1100
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:59,280
especially

1101
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:02,319
in a post-9 11 world uh you know

1102
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,760
that strange things you know i think

1103
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:07,839
that even if people had

1104
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:10,079
were watching 911 unfold they were

1105
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:11,440
probably like this doesn't make any

1106
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,240
sense what's going

1107
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:14,720
on right this uh using commercial

1108
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,280
airliners to crash into towers and

1109
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,720
uh just it didn't fit anyone's paradigm

1110
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,480
and so

1111
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:24,240
again speaking up to say hey if you see

1112
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,599
something weird

1113
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:27,040
don't just keep it to yourself or don't

1114
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,319
be afraid that people are going to

1115
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:31,040
ridicule you or make fun of you

1116
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,480
or aggressively debunk and we should be

1117
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:35,920
curious and we should

1118
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:38,560
all work together to look for answers

1119
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:39,440
and

1120
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:44,079
talk about like

1121
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:46,880
uaps i always raise the point that

1122
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:48,960
there's very real issues to do with

1123
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:51,680
any kind of an identified object like

1124
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,720
your encounter

1125
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,040
is is obviously a very real issue and

1126
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,599
not something to be dismissed i mean

1127
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,359
really the navy wants to figure out what

1128
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,040
went on and

1129
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:03,839
i'm sure they they they tried and they

1130
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:05,359
assured you it wasn't uh

1131
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:07,760
was it a blue operation the uh where

1132
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:09,280
they were friendly friendly

1133
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:12,960
exercises uh

1134
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,160
it hasn't has anybody

1135
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,319
suggested things that it might be that

1136
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:20,480
the dance you know advanced technology

1137
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:20,880
like

1138
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:24,319
other other ideas that

1139
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,790
i i mean i've heard most of them from

1140
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,319
ufo twitter

1141
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,480
again i don't i don't follow it uh i

1142
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:36,720
don't um i don't buy weight

1143
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,839
at night thinking about it uh i i think

1144
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,160
that we are

1145
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,920
you know that this is past and opening

1146
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:45,119
that we're not going to get any more

1147
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,240
information

1148
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:48,640
uh the other you know the other

1149
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:49,359
eyewitnesses

1150
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:52,480
might be able to provide um

1151
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:56,000
a bit more to to the encounter and help

1152
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:57,359
clarify the timeline but i don't think

1153
00:45:02,309 --> 00:44:58,480
we'll get closer to

1154
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:04,069
i think i think if that was possible

1155
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,359
that the folks in the pentagon would

1156
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:06,880
have done that by now

1157
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:11,829
what the other thing that i hope besides

1158
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:13,839
reducing the stigma is that we

1159
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:16,720
collectively uh do better about

1160
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:17,680
gathering more

1161
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:21,440
and better evidence so whether it's

1162
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:24,560
having a an actual gear kit

1163
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:28,319
of camera and recording devices and

1164
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,280
sensors

1165
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:32,000
uh not just for military but you know

1166
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:32,400
for

1167
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,720
someplace

1168
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:40,800
where there's clear skies uh something

1169
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,760
where you know we

1170
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,359
we all ring our hands and say why isn't

1171
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:45,119
there better footage or why is this just

1172
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:46,000
a grainy little

1173
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:48,400
black and white thing well you know

1174
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,680
everybody's got a smartphone in their

1175
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:50,880
pocket

1176
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:53,680
but you know i've been driving a lot

1177
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,520
recently driving cross-country

1178
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:57,520
if i'm driving 80 miles an hour down the

1179
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,720
highway

1180
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:00,480
and i see bigfoot foot on the side of

1181
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,839
the road it takes me a minute to get

1182
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:05,359
to get my phone out and to get the

1183
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:06,880
camera function on

1184
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:09,520
and get the car slowed down or do a

1185
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,160
u-turn

1186
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,160
and by the time i get back there

1187
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,480
bigfoot's wandered off into the woods

1188
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:17,280
so you know having your stuff ready and

1189
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:17,839
queued up

1190
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,750
and then also yeah maybe everybody's you

1191
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,599
know we're like um

1192
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,280
a surveillance society where everybody's

1193
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:31,680
getting gopro attached to them

1194
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:33,359
oh yeah you'll get conspiracy theories

1195
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:35,119
starting now people will say that ufos

1196
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:36,000
are just a

1197
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:37,760
a way of getting cameras into

1198
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,359
everybody's cars

1199
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:42,720
yeah everybody's playing but yeah

1200
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:43,920
i hear what you're saying like more

1201
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,160
information yeah more more

1202
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:48,560
uh you know being able to gather collect

1203
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:50,240
the information but then also a way

1204
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:53,760
to um debrief it so having standardized

1205
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,480
protocols

1206
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,640
for the debrief i'm getting asked so

1207
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:58,400
many great questions

1208
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,160
now that i wish people would have asked

1209
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:03,119
me right on november 14 2004 yeah i wish

1210
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:04,400
i was so do

1211
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:06,400
or november 16th right but if we had

1212
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,680
this sort of template

1213
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:09,599
where we could say these are all the

1214
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,880
questions you should and

1215
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,640
ask and answer after one of these

1216
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,240
encounters and

1217
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:16,079
here's the the database that you

1218
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:18,400
submitted to where it can all be

1219
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:22,319
uh you know compiled and analyzed i mean

1220
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:23,599
it's 2021.

1221
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:26,240
if if amazon can tell me what i want to

1222
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:28,000
buy today before i even know

1223
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,160
i want to buy it if they can read my

1224
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,480
mind with their algorithms and their

1225
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,800
uh and their tools then i feel like they

1226
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,319
should have a

1227
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:39,359
way a clearinghouse to uh collect

1228
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:43,440
and analyze all of these yeah

1229
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,040
well i know there are uh some

1230
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,800
initiatives to do that there's a thing

1231
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,319
called sky hub

1232
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:49,599
uh where people are trying to

1233
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:51,440
standardize uh kind of an

1234
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:53,839
installation of equipment that has a

1235
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:54,640
full sky

1236
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:58,240
camera and a pan tilt zoom camera that

1237
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,040
automatically records things in the sky

1238
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:02,800
that look anonymous and then use

1239
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,920
some kind of ai to filter out the false

1240
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:07,520
positives and then just

1241
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,680
hopefully you'll get just the actual

1242
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:11,760
ufos if they're out yeah

1243
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:15,119
so the people are doing it great

1244
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:17,200
yeah yeah that's this

1245
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,520
[Laughter]

1246
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:21,599
you is up sign up for it i know they

1247
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:22,720
would like your endorsement because

1248
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:23,280
they're uh

1249
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:26,400
people you you might have heard of from

1250
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:28,640
the uh the nimitz like uh gary voorhees

1251
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:29,760
and kevin day

1252
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:33,599
are involved in it okay so

1253
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:35,920
anyway uh well uh is there anything else

1254
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,280
you want to kind of

1255
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:39,760
share with everybody that you don't need

1256
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,559
to repeat

1257
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,559
to over and over again that you want to

1258
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,760
get out there

1259
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:45,440
questions that people ask you all the

1260
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,480
time yeah

1261
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:50,480
i would i would just you know again i'm

1262
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,520
here to say

1263
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,599
that i'm just a normal person and i had

1264
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:55,440
this small encounter

1265
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:58,640
uh i never intended to be

1266
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:01,520
talking about it 16 years later on

1267
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:02,000
national

1268
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:06,079
tv or uh trending on ufo twitter

1269
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:09,200
uh but i would say that you know

1270
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:11,760
there is no big conspiracy that it's not

1271
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,240
uh

1272
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:15,280
some dark military program to try to

1273
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:16,559
manipulate the

1274
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:19,119
the population that uh the folks who are

1275
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:19,680
working

1276
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:23,119
on this program are actually spending

1277
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,079
more time now

1278
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,880
answering their foia requests than they

1279
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:28,880
are and actually doing their job

1280
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:32,480
collecting and analyzing the the reports

1281
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:32,880
that

1282
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,559
uh are anomalous so um i would say you

1283
00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:38,160
know give them give them a little break

1284
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:42,319
and let them do their jobs and

1285
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,359
you know be patient with the report and

1286
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,200
uh i'm sure that it will be

1287
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:48,880
underwhelming in many ways

1288
00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:53,200
uh i feel like a lot of the um

1289
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:57,280
the characters that are so

1290
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,440
enthusiastic about this they it's like

1291
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,559
they appreciate the

1292
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,720
anticipation more than they will

1293
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:04,400
actually enjoy

1294
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:07,520
the release um i feel that might be the

1295
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:08,400
case

1296
00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:12,000
yeah so yeah we'll see i don't have any

1297
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:15,280
insight but um i'm sure that that there

1298
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:16,800
will be a lot of

1299
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,760
churn after the report is released and

1300
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:21,520
uh again if there's anything i can do to

1301
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:22,319
just reassure

1302
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:26,000
folks that um

1303
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,440
you know trust and confidence with the

1304
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,040
military and

1305
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,800
uh folks who volunteer we're an

1306
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:32,720
all-volunteer force so if you raise your

1307
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,079
right hand and you take an oath to

1308
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,079
support and defend the constitution

1309
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:39,119
uh you know and

1310
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:42,319
there's a uh there's a bond there that

1311
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:43,599
that we take very seriously

1312
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:46,400
right yeah um yeah so if there's

1313
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:47,040
follow-up

1314
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,480
uh i look forward to that with you

1315
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:49,760
thanks so much for the civil

1316
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:51,280
conversation

1317
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,190
so oh yeah just i mean you very quickly

1318
00:51:01,349 --> 00:51:00,800
said that you wouldn't entirely rule out

1319
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:01,359
my

1320
00:51:06,309 --> 00:51:04,400
explanation the parallax thing uh

1321
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:06,319
i don't know i mean it's just as

1322
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:08,160
plausible as any of the others that i've

1323
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:08,720
heard

1324
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:12,960
uh yeah i'll take that i'll take that

1325
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,119
yeah keep uh keep fighting the good

1326
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:17,440
fight and good luck with all of your

1327
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,640
um your hunting yeah

1328
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:22,160
yeah well thank you thank you and uh

1329
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:23,680
hopefully this will uh

1330
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,760
remove the need for some people to be

1331
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,200
asking you questions in the future

1332
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,040
and i'll i'll stick it up on youtube and

1333
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:31,359
uh see what people say